Page 34 of 36 FirstFirst ... 243233343536 LastLast
Results 331 to 340 of 353

Thread: Cue the Anti-Censorship Posts - Let's Discuss Civilly

  1. #331
    Senior Member KrownKlown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Atop the Tower of God.
    Posts
    3,382
    Quote Originally Posted by mandy_moorehol View Post
    Hmm . . . I don't care about panties being altered since I don't play games for digital panties and am not a ridiculous all-or-nothing person that is going to not buy a game on principal because something insignificant was changed. The whole "vote with your wallet" thing regarding censorship is extremist and pretty narrow-minded in my opinion. The minority that won't buy a game over such a thing will change nothing except limiting how many/what types of games they will be buying/playing. Anti-censorship/localization people are almost as annoying as SJWs (anti-censorship is just another form of social justice wankery . . . it's all the same to me, usually being overly political and self-entitled about the "issues" at hand, as if they are a serious threat to ones well-being/rights/freedom).
    Here is my counter argument to you. If something is not a big deal, why is the default always to take it out? If it doesn't matter just leave it in.

    Its jrpgs, there target audience are the people that care about that, and usually those who complain wouldn't buy it anyway.

    So I don't see your actually argument , it seems to be saying well it doesn't matter anyway, lets take something out that some people who buy the game want , so some that wouldn't either way somehow feel happy about it.

    I mean if you watch or know anything about Japanese culture, and those in the West who follow it, that is what they like. So in my opinion if something doesn't matter, the default should be lets keep it in.

    I probably will never not buy a game because of some change like that, but I can't say I am terribly thrilledd essentially being big brothered by a party that is not involved.
    Last edited by KrownKlown; 04-01-2016 at 04:38 AM.

  2. #332
    Senior Member mandy_moorehol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    KoalaWalla Land
    Posts
    2,208
    Quote Originally Posted by KrownKlown View Post
    Here is my counter argument to you. If something is not a big deal, why is the default always to take it out? If it doesn't matter just leave it in.

    Its jrpgs, there target audience are the people that care about that, and usually those who complain wouldn't buy it anyway.

    So I don't see your actually argument , it seems to be saying well it doesn't matter anyway, lets take something out that some people who buy the game want , so some that wouldn't either way somehow feel happy about it.

    I mean if you watch or know anything about Japanese culture, and those in the West who follow it, that is what they like. So in my opinion if something doesn't matter, the default should be lets keep it in.

    I probably will never not buy a game because of some change like that, but I can't say I am terribly thread essentially being big brothered by a party that is not involved.
    Nintendo (like probably any game company) is more concerned about their money and their reputation/brand image than what niche gamers want. They will take content out of a game if they think it's better for business or to keep their "respectable" image. In that sense, it doesn't really matter what you want or if you don't buy their game. They seem fine with ignoring such things and continuing to censor/localize games like they always have. It very well might somehow be more profitable for them to do this in certain situations. I don't have access to such data to know. Who's to say anyone in their shoes wouldn't do the same? The consumer only sees one side of things and it's a side with a lot of lacking information and context; especially with how vague Nintendo generally is in comparison to most game companies. I respect them, even when I don't always agree with them. I would prefer to have games not be censored, but that is completely unrealistic to expect such a thing from Nintendo in general. For some reason, people like to get upset time and time again over not very surprising news that Nintendo is still Nintendo and continues to remove things from games. I accepted that a long time ago, since I generally see no better alternative in most situations if I want to play such games. It's a minor gripe and too idealistic to expect for much better or from them because their business model has always been the opposite with a few exceptions from time to time.

    Also, censorship in Japan has been a lot more strict in general lately, especially with what is allowed in manga (besides the typical issues due to Article 175 of the Criminal Code, which has been around since 1907 . . . and of course the West is not forcing them to continue to censor genitals, yet this has been going on for a very, very long time now).

    A lot of this comes down to parents, teachers, and government having influence and wanting such changes. The United States and views from the extreme left don't always have much to do with this kind of stuff (but a lot of fanboys are probably unwilling to admit that their precious Japan would do this from within without influence of some other nation being a substantial factor). A lot of this idealistic and narrow-minded Japan worship that has little to do with reality can be a form of orientalism and also completely racist, but I have little interest in making judgement calls about such things (though it doesn't seem uncommon among people who consider themselves otaku and have little "real life" experience with Japan outside of consumerism and possibly misguided perceptions . . . but that seems like stating the obvious).
    Last edited by mandy_moorehol; 04-01-2016 at 03:02 AM.

  3. #333
    Senior Member KrownKlown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Atop the Tower of God.
    Posts
    3,382
    Quote Originally Posted by mandy_moorehol View Post
    Nintendo (like probably any game company) is more concerned about their money and their reputation/brand image than what niche gamers want. They will take content out of a game if they think it's better for business or to keep their "respectable" image. In that sense, it doesn't really matter what you want or if you don't buy their game. They seem fine with ignoring such things and continuing to censor/localize games like they always have. It very well might somehow be more profitable for them to do this in certain situations. I don't have access to such data to know. Who's to say anyone in their shoes wouldn't do the same? The consumer only sees one side of things and it's a side with a lot of lacking information and context; especially with how vague Nintendo generally is in comparison to most game companies. I respect them, even when I don't always agree with them. I would prefer to have games not be censored, but that is completely unrealistic to expect such a thing from Nintendo in general. For some reason, people like to get upset time and time again over not very surprising news that Nintendo is still Nintendo and continues to remove things from games. I accepted that a long time ago, since I generally see no better alternative in most situations if I want to play such games. It's a minor gripe and too idealistic to expect for much better or from them because their business model has always been the opposite with a few exceptions from time to time.

    Also, censorship in Japan has been a lot more strict in general lately, especially with what is allowed in manga (besides the typical issues due to Article 175 of the Criminal Code, which has been around since 1907 . . . and of course the West is not forcing them to continue to censor genitals, yet this has been going on for a very, very long time now).

    A lot of this comes down to parents, teachers, and government having influence and wanting such changes. The United States and views from the extreme left don't always have much to do with this kind of stuff (but a lot of fanboys are probably unwilling to admit that their precious Japan would do this from within without influence of some other nation being a substantial factor). A lot of this idealistic and narrow-minded Japan worship that has little to do with reality can be a form of orientalism and also completely racist, but I have little interest in making judgement calls about such things (though it doesn't seem uncommon among people who consider themselves otaku and have little "real life" experience with Japan outside of consumerism and possibly misguided perceptions . . . but that seems like stating the obvious).
    The problem is, for a niche game a niche gamer is not a niche gamer, he is the only consumer of that product. Other than FF no jrpg has ever come close to hitting mainstream. Even long running series in the west like the Tales series are lucky to sell a few 100k copies, when most triple AAA sell that in a couple of minutes. So its not like obscure rpg y is all of sudden going to sell ten million copies because you censored some panties.

    Also how are you saving a reputation, when a. you already did it. The game already had that element in it, and often times its already been released in its native country. You can't white wash yourself of something you already have done. And then with the exception of companies like Nintendo , most of the JRPG companies like Square Enix made themselves on that "Japanese" flavor of JRPGs. Like I said, what your reputation means to someone who is not your consumer doesn't matter. When Square Enix was great, it wasn't when they were trying to westernize, make ten volumes of ff 13, and put out crappy Eidos games. Or someone like compile heart , idea factory or nisa, nobody is buying games like Neptunia Dragons Crown or Monster Mono for gameplay. Its insane.

    I won't argue with you that maybe the company's think this somehow helps their reputation but I think the reality is far from it. Then again I guess nobody ever said people where rationale.

    I will admit Japan has always been paradoxically with the censorship of genitalia. That said a lot of the recent crack downs have been more of "putting on a show" then anything worthwhile. I think their ordinance maybe banned a handful of works from being sold publicly and that is about it. I feel like Aki Sora or whatever the hell it was called was maybe one of its only "victims". You even flat out have authors basically giving the law a middle finger with works like To Love Ru darkness. If anything the games seem to be getting raunchier than tamer. Outside of games like Rance, I can't really think of too many series that top some of the things released in recent years criminal girls and mugen souls monster mono etc. Thats not even counting flat out hentai games released on the pc.

    And I want to be clear hear, I am only using the term Japan to refer to Japan's own gaming/manga/anime community, not a representative of the country as a whole. Of course every Japanese person isn't watching the latest episode of Naruto or playing the latest Neptunia game, nor is Japan some mystical fantasy land with fox ladies and takuni people. But I fail to see what you accomplish by spouting some backhanded insult of a group of people that appreciate something about another culture. I will admit there are some people who do take it to the extreme, but on the flip side there are just as many who act like you can't like something unless you are from that culture, as if you somehow can't understand it.

  4. #334
    Senior Member mandy_moorehol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    KoalaWalla Land
    Posts
    2,208
    Most video game companies would rather be overly ambitious/possibly delusional and believe they can reach a market much larger than a niche audience for whatever JRPG they are releasing. It doesn't have to make sense to anyone but Nintendo, Square Enix, etc.

  5. #335
    I think there's more than one phenomenon happening, the combination of which is responsible for this. The mid-tier publishing model has essentially disappeared. With budgets ballooning to the hundreds of millions of dollars, every game is now forced to be either AAA or niche as hell. And that's how games are being consumed, too. A game will either make all the money, or none of it. That phenomenon has pushed publishers toward making games that are focus grouped and checklist marked to all hell on either side. Either they go to the extreme of eliminating every quirk that might put off Joe Gamer or they go to the equal opposite extreme and include all the quirkiness that Joe Otaku eats up. This just ends up with less creativity on both sides.

    Another weird trend that factors in is the manipulative political trick of blurring the line between real and make believe in order to turn something that would otherwise be a matter of personal taste into something that can be moralized. It bolsters someone's argument to go moral. In order to do that, though, they have to start pretending that fictional characters have agency or that someone will be dangerous because of the media they consume. We've essentially reignited the Jack Thompson debate. It's just that Anita Sarkeesian is a better salesman than Jack.

  6. #336
    Senior Member PhantomSentry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    3,649
    I bet it won't be long before the Anita Sarkeesian rape simulator exists.

  7. #337
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by KrownKlown View Post
    Here is my counter argument to you. If something is not a big deal, why is the default always to take it out? If it doesn't matter just leave it in.

    Its jrpgs, there target audience are the people that care about that, and usually those who complain wouldn't buy it anyway.

    So I don't see your actually argument , it seems to be saying well it doesn't matter anyway, lets take something out that some people who buy the game want , so some that wouldn't either way somehow feel happy about it.

    I mean if you watch or know anything about Japanese culture, and those in the West who follow it, that is what they like. So in my opinion if something doesn't matter, the default should be lets keep it in.

    I probably will never not buy a game because of some change like that, but I can't say I am terribly thrilledd essentially being big brothered by a party that is not involved.
    /thread complete.

  8. #338
    Senior Member mandy_moorehol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    KoalaWalla Land
    Posts
    2,208
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBonkers View Post
    /thread complete.
    Trying to make sense of business decisions from the perspective of a consumer will generally not add up to much but idealization/wishful thinking/self-entitlement/too much emphasis placed on personal opinions and feelings. Just like an individual doesn't generally matter to the universe as a whole, the opinions of a vocal minority don't generally matter to game companies.

  9. #339
    Things aren't removed despite that they don't matter, they're removed on the fear that they might. Because any random BS could turn into a moral panic these companies opt for the Bud Light route. Sure, it's kind of bland but it's inoffensive to everyone. But because nobody really knows what might set somebody off, it ends up being up in the air what kind of content gets cut since it's all based on guesses anyway. This is why you got really weird contradictions back in the 80s and 90s. A ton of Nintendo games had even the vaguest religious references scrubbed out. Then you get Castlevania III with a ginormous cross right in the opening scene. It's super arbitrary because it's based on the whims of whomever is on the job that day.

    I think what's especially disappointing is that we're moving backwards. Throughout the 90s we dealt with all kinds of arbitrary changes with stuff like alcohol references getting axed rendering many scenes somewhat nonsensical--people getting s***faced on "coffee" or "eating too much." References to death mutated into vague threats or unusual euphemisms like "defeated" or something. Sometime during the 32-bit era we hit a point where we got past all that and no longer had to decode our games. But now here we are over 15 years later with Street Fighter V getting hacked up camera angles with screwy framing and being left to assume what's happening when we hear an off-screen slap during R. Mika's animations. I remember back then when game magazines would do spreads on not-yet-localized games and there was a weird trend where the reviewers would essentially start guessing at what was likely to get changed or removed, like it was the most natural thing. We were quite resigned to the fact that something had to go. People are getting pissed off because the over-caution and hyper sensitivity is taking us in reverse.

    The real reason why this kind of thing is bad, though, is that it politicizes our entertainment. You see it in movies, too. It's become impossible to tell any story or include any content without inadvertently making a statement or being accused of something. First, it creates a chilling effect and ends up pushing our entertainment to be Bud Light but, even more dangerous, it becomes a cry wolf situation where all of the legitimately terrible things in the world get ignored because there's so much outcry over silly crap.
    Last edited by TonyTheTiger; 04-07-2016 at 08:18 PM.

  10. #340
    Senior Member xelement5x's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    6,501
    I guess Tokyo Mirage Sessions is going to have some censoring that's been discovered already:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y1R...utu.be&t=3m36s

    This makes like no sense to me but, whatever, I wasn't planning on buying the game anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBonkers View Post
    Actually this makes the localization good, but because it doesn't match the Japanese Script 1:1 people throw a fit. And if that's a problem for you, GTFO, go improve your Japanese and play the Japanese version to be as pure and kawaii as you want.

Page 34 of 36 FirstFirst ... 243233343536 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •