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Thread: WD Trivia/Storytime Thread

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicireland View Post
    Yeah we were really trying to push the memory cart at a time when SEGA was actively trying to hide them because it was part of Bernie's "kill the Saturn" strategy. So we made the memory card stickers and for a time sold the cards directly so fans could find them because SEGA of America was making them hard to buy. There's three stickers to match the CD variants for the game (one sticker matches two of the discs).
    ah, confirm or deny: Working Designs was actively selling Sega memory carts through their on line store and were forced to stop after Sega sent them a cease-and-desist and legal threats. And wasn't the reason Working Designs was selling official Sega branded Saturn memory carts is due to the 3rd party knockoffs causing corrupted saves and general glitchiness in Dragon Force'? And the other reason WD was selling them was that the official Sega carts were nearly impossible to come by. I seem to remember that was the case...

    Best thing I ever bought for my Saturn was the official Sega memory cart even if it was sold at an insane premium price. I could also swear I could count on my fingers the number of times I actually saw one for sale at a retail store.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetsweetfugu View Post
    ah, confirm or deny: Working Designs was actively selling Sega memory carts through their on line store and were forced to stop after Sega sent them a cease-and-desist and legal threats. And wasn't the reason Working Designs was selling official Sega branded Saturn memory carts is due to the 3rd party knockoffs causing corrupted saves and general glitchiness in Dragon Force'? And the other reason WD was selling them was that the official Sega carts were nearly impossible to come by. I seem to remember that was the case...

    Best thing I ever bought for my Saturn was the official Sega memory cart even if it was sold at an insane premium price. I could also swear I could count on my fingers the number of times I actually saw one for sale at a retail store.
    I don't remember if we got a cease and desist, but I think SEGA just cut us off from buying them to resell. We were simply unable to buy any more, which was CRAZY because technically it was a stocked item - they just didn't want to sell it to anyone because they wanted the sales to look bad for Japan and starve the US market. Insane amount of Stolar and Co driven sabotage of the Saturn to kill it prematurely. Still can't get over it to this day.

  3. #243
    Senior Member PW_Patrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicireland View Post
    I don't remember if we got a cease and desist, but I think SEGA just cut us off from buying them to resell. We were simply unable to buy any more, which was CRAZY because technically it was a stocked item - they just didn't want to sell it to anyone because they wanted the sales to look bad for Japan and starve the US market. Insane amount of Stolar and Co driven sabotage of the Saturn to kill it prematurely. Still can't get over it to this day.
    Has there ever been talk of SOJ taking legal action against Stolar considering how obvious it has become what he was up to?

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by PW_Patrick View Post
    Stolar joined SOA shortly after, and asked Wallis if there was anything he could do to help the project along. Development tools are requested, particularly the Nights engine from Japan (which would have made for an AMAZING Sonic game), which Stolar went after only to get one of the nastiest overreactions imaginable from SOJ: an emphatic no and a threat from Naka to WALK if guys like Okawa or Irimajiri complied.
    the best source on the story story is here at lostlevels
    Stolar actually GOT the development tools that were requested and he did so without permission. The head guy at Sonic Team Yuji Naka is the one who flipped out and threatened to leave.
    I've heard other people say the story was actually worse than the lostlevels' version of it. Deep personal hatreds were formed between people mentioned in the story. There was extreme dysfunction on both ends.
    Last edited by sweetsweetfugu; 05-30-2013 at 12:25 AM.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicireland View Post
    I don't remember if we got a cease and desist, but I think SEGA just cut us off from buying them to resell. We were simply unable to buy any more, which was CRAZY because technically it was a stocked item - they just didn't want to sell it to anyone because they wanted the sales to look bad for Japan and starve the US market. Insane amount of Stolar and Co driven sabotage of the Saturn to kill it prematurely. Still can't get over it to this day.
    but that's the reason Working Designs resorted to selling them in the first place, wasn't it? Dragon Force is one of the few games on the Saturn that won't play correctly unless you use the official Sega memory cart. There was something about the compression used in the 3rd party knockoffs that was causing people to have problems playing and saving the game.

  6. #246
    Administrator vicireland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetsweetfugu View Post
    but that's the reason Working Designs resorted to selling them in the first place, wasn't it? Dragon Force is one of the few games on the Saturn that won't play correctly unless you use the official Sega memory cart. There was something about the compression used in the 3rd party knockoffs that was causing people to have problems playing and saving the game.
    Yes, we were selling them initially because SEGA would not supply retail. Once they saw us advertising them and how many we were selling, that's when they cut us off, too. They wanted to make SURE the market was dry of the product as another way to make the Saturn less attractive. It was messed up.

  7. #247
    Senior Member PW_Patrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetsweetfugu View Post
    the best source on the story story is here at lostlevels
    Stolar actually GOT the development tools that were requested and he did so without permission. The head guy at Sonic Team Yuji Naka is the one who flipped out and threatened to leave.
    I've heard other people say the story was actually worse than the lostlevels' version of it. Deep personal hatreds were formed between people mentioned in the story. There was extreme dysfunction on both ends.
    Why did Naka blow his stack? Just insecure?

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicireland View Post
    Yes, we were selling them initially because SEGA would not supply retail. Once they saw us advertising them and how many we were selling, that's when they cut us off, too. They wanted to make SURE the market was dry of the product as another way to make the Saturn less attractive. It was messed up.
    that is totally messed up. Dragon Force issues aside, the 3rd party carts were notoriously flaky on their own losing all saves or making them inaccessible. The price may have been twice as much (well, when the 3rd party carts were $30), but it was well worth it for the authentic thing just to have something that wasn't a malfunctioning PoS. Besides, the thing had so much space on it you could practically save every single game made and released for the system stateside.

    Quote Originally Posted by PW_Patrick View Post
    Why did Naka blow his stack? Just insecure?
    IDK the *exact* reason, but it was directly related to the development kit for Nights being taken by Stolar. Did Naka feel this was treachery? Did he want to be the one to make a Saturn Sonic? Did he object to some baka gaijin making a Sonic game? It is a mystery... But it was part of a back-and-forth between SoA and SoJ. The American team got the kit and were two weeks into making a prototype before being forced to scrap all their progress so Naka wouldn't leave. They weren't happy about it.

    It is one of several good examples of why the Saturn failed though. Everyone seems to want to make Stolar the villain here, but you have to realize the Saturn was screwed up from the start before he was even a factor. SoA and SoJ had a dysfunctional relationship and had a tendency to want to take Sega and its properties in separate directions at times. The Saturn's launch was botched terrifically in the United States. It started at $600 with a god awful redesigned controller and I don't remember exactly if Virtua Fighter was a limited pack-in or not, but it looked and played like garbage. Besides, nobody knew the stupid thing had been released. One day it had literally just appeared in stores with no advertising or marketing to speak of. When the Playstation came out, the Saturn was priced to match at $300. When the PS dropped to $250, the Saturn didn't. I seem to remember SoA wanting to remain competitive and matching the price, but SoJ objected. The $50 difference is what caused the PS to start kicking the Saturn's butt real hard. Plus here in the west, there was a bizarre obsession with trying to use the Saturn, a 2d powerhouse, to out 3d a competing system that was way better at it.

    The Saturn is secretly the best system of its generation. Nobody in the west would know that unless they were playing import games though. Helen Keller could have managed the system better
    Last edited by sweetsweetfugu; 05-30-2013 at 02:02 AM.

  9. #249
    Senior Member PW_Patrick's Avatar
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    Yeah, I remember the Saturn launching at E3 2005. They basically said "and all this is available...RIGHT NOW at your local retailer! Go get 'em!"

    And since nobody had time to save up for the console, the crowd went mild.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by sweetsweetfugu View Post
    that is totally messed up. Dragon Force issues aside, the 3rd party carts were notoriously flaky on their own losing all saves or making them inaccessible. The price may have been twice as much (well, when the 3rd party carts were $30), but it was well worth it for the authentic thing just to have something that wasn't a malfunctioning PoS. Besides, the thing had so much space on it you could practically save every single game made and released for the system stateside.
    The bigger problem with third party carts were the connectors on the PCB wearing out Saturn cartridge slots and being more difficult for the actual system to read. First party Sega carts (memory, RAM or Netlink) had a tapered edge that allow it to easily slide in and make good contact with the cartridge slot. Most third party cartridges had one thick PCB that did not make as good of contact with the pins and could bend or break the pins inside the cartridge slot. Simply put getting them to read after a certain amount of time could be problematic, and an even greater problem than the compression method corrupting saves was the actual carts becoming unreadable or causing damage to the cartridge slot itself.

    Added in editing:
    And yes, as mentioned earlier finding first party Saturn memory cards was a challenge and as a result most people were using Interact or Performance brand ones in the US. By the time (and long before that actually) Magic Knight Rayearth came out, outside of ebay finding a first party Saturn memory cart was a near impossibility. Even finding used ones in a brick and mortar store that carried them like Funcoland was a challenge.
    Last edited by DragonmasterDan; 05-30-2013 at 02:42 PM.

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